Guild Wars: Stepping Into Hero Battles
Finally finished the campaign (Although, I know, I know, I'm behind on the PUs again. Sigh.) and although I haven't got Razah in my pokeball just yet, he's only collecting a few gemstones away. I have no idea how difficult that is but it's only a matter of time and, well, I'm not exactly shy about spending that in case you haven't noticed. But Mr. Ritualist, that means I've got the rest of the set. And with my nightly romps through the RA have gotten me a lot of unlocks - I'm closing in on 400k though the magic number will be 420k or twice what it took me to get to UAX in Factions. I've picked up most everything I can tell I want and what's left is just filling things out or running around to capture a few elites (I don't like to use faction on those because it means I miss out on the XP when I do cap them. I think, I'm not sure if you only get the bonus when you unlock something or not anymore. But, still, I've got most of the good elites already, anyway.) .
Which is to say, you know, I might just be ready to try out this Hero Battle stuff. I'd like to have Razah but I could unlock him tonight if I really wanted so I'm not worried. Anyhow, I need to do some research first, figure out the maps, what other people are running, that sort of thing (The fact that there's no obs mode for the HB is annoying here. Most people I've spoken with seem to treat it as a joke - there's probably a good reason for that but, hey, I'll test anything out.) but I definitely want to give it a whirl.
As far as I can tell, it's not that hard to get ahead. Just as there are bots infesting things like the Comp Missions and the Snow Fights there's this rolling thing taking place in the Hero Battles - people get in match and use a random way (In this case using the /roll emote to produce a random number. I've heard people say they should disable emotes in those sort of places to prevent this sort of thing but, well, if they do there'll be some other way of flipping a coin found.) to determine who leaves and who stays to get the points for winning. That sounds horrible but, hey, that +5k faction cap is pretty tempting (Not so much for now but, you know, for the next expansion. The more faction I have salted away the less I have to grind for to unlock shit when that comes out.). I'd be in it mostly for the competition but I can't say I blame any player for doing that.
The other thing is a holding build. A pair of Monk Heroes and a Rit just loaded with defensive stuff to hold the center point while the player runs around to cap shrines - generally with a Sin because they have the best methods for getting from place to place quickly. And, you know, they can insanely spike someone down in a hurry. That's the way it was the last time I looked at things and with the balance picture frozen I can't imagine it's changed much.
So, assuming that's the case what I'd want to do would be to outplan those sorts of teams (And if it's not, well, I want to play the yomi game with whatever's most common. If this format is treated as unseriously as I think it is then that shouldn't be too hard. I suck at team builds, though. Mostly because I hardly ever make them and I suck at builds in general.) while still being able to outplay the occasional team running something different. I did some thinking about it and I can see a few ways to go.
First, for my character, I'm going to need something capable of stalemating that Assassin. We're in flagger/anti-flagger territory here but at a minimum I want melee shutdown and high mobility. Until I see what others are using I can't really say more about what I'll need but at this point I'm figuring on an E/Mo with hex and condition removal. Probably Air for the Blind and Gale plus Water for the snares and things like Blurred Vision - that would mean I could use Storm Djinn's haste for a movement buff or even something like Armor of Mist (which, you know, stinks with that long casting time and low uptime but the added armor might help.).
For the Heroes, the thing to do would be to have them take the center which means being able to knock out that AI driven neo-healing ball. I see a few possibilities. I imagine most people started out with Warriors/Assassins/Dervishes because, well, they're scary and they'll kill people if they're allowed. And the current defensive setup is made to protect against melee or direct damage first and foremost.
First, Elementalists. A couple SF spammers should clear things out in a hurry. Back them up with a Monk in case the other team actually wants to fight and splash around some Blinds and Wards and hexes, too. That or an SF Ele and a Sandstorm Ele.
Second, Necromancers. If the startup before each match is long enough then we could have a situation where I could sac somebody to death and get a little minion army going - that means JB madness ensues! Although, you know, that's going to be nerfed hopefully soon and if the startup timer's slow that's not exactly a good idea. However, it seems the holding build will be using spirits. We're not in the days of spirit spam but that's still a lot of deaths to fuel Soul Reaping. If I get Razah or figure out a good secondary I could even get some spirit spam of my own going or even do the lv 0 Bone Minions thing (Unfortunately, I'm limited to two Hero Necs or I'd have a N/Rt for this sort of thing. Yeah, Soul Reaping isn't broken at all.). Then, I throw in a Reaper's Mark Hexrocmancer and a Spoil Victor Hexromancer and count on the AI to be stupid about removing the hexes intelligently. And my opponent to be skimping on hex removal in favor of more direct damage mitigation. That combined hex pressure fueled by the spirit's energy just might do the trick.
As I said, I need to hit the books a bit from here. We'll have to see how it goes.
Labels:
Electric Avenue,
Games,
Guild Wars,
Projects
6 comments:
Tip #1: Wanderlust > Hero Monks.
Tip #2: SF doesn't kill spirits.
I'm going to have to flatter you more if you keep this up.
SF doesn't kill spirits.
Right, but it's not the spirits I care about - it's the people putting down the spirits (And that the spirits are protecting). SF is nasty on things like Shelter and he AI's dumb enough that they're going to sit there and try to recast it while getting pounded. I'm not sure you can power through two Monk's healing but I'm willing to give it a shot (Provided it doesn't get too nerfed in the coming rebalance. I'm especially worried that they're going to hammer the Glowing Gaze that lets you keep powering it out - I agree that SF is a bit too powerful but, really, it's exactly the kind of skill that the Elementalist as a class needs. People might be sick of SF spam but it gets used because it's the only way that the Elementalist gets to viably nuke the hell out of things and, c'mon, that's pure Timmy and the Lords of the Underworld. But because the cost on SF is so high, energy-wise, it needs a reliable engine. Nerfing that just might push SF out of the picture.) and I can figure out a build that the AI will reliably cast it - my first attempts to get them to do so had them concentrating on Fireball rather than SF. Fireball! That's what you throw at them after you blast them with SF, not what you rely on. But I guess because it's less energy they default to it. And, you know, ignore the damn GLE that lets them pop off two SFs for five energy and a second's worth of casting. But the AI just doesn't calculate things that way, I guess.
Wanderlust > Hero Monks.
Way ahead of you - I'm definitely trying to figure out how to get a Wanderlust in there without having Razah. From talking to people he's a pain to get (Now, a second Ritualist Hero or the original variable prof idea, I can see that. But it's like Morgahn. You have a new class to play with but you bury the Hero that lets people do that way in the back of the campaign? Brilliant! A Hero from every profession should be standard equipment. Getting multiples of them should be where the challenge comes in. Oh well, that's what faction's for.) and I'm not dropping a hundred k or more just to unlock something. But an offensive spirit spammer with Spiritual Pain to go along with my Necro hexers would be what I'd be thinking of - I just haven't worked out the best combination yet. Wanderlust is on my list because of the AI factor but so was a Ritual Lord with Anguish et al to just keep the energy coming.
I'm really not up to speed on the Ritualist as a class, though. And not knowing how these matches are played, the time frame and all, I'm just not sure which is best - it's going to take some experimenting and time I don't have. It's pretty rough finding good information on this format because people don't take it seriously - there's not the wealth of information readily available the way there is with, say, GvG. There's probably a good reason for that but, still, I want to try it out at least once. Now's really not the time, though. And from what I can tell from a cursory glance the idea of abusing Soul Reaping's crept into the HBs as well - seems like some kind of JB with spirits is the current FoTM.
So, I had the right idea, I just had it too late. And I'm really not sure how you deal with JBs (Although I imagine some kind of nature ritual thing with Barrage bots might be a start - hit the enchantments with Nature's Renewal and/or Tranquility and try to kill things faster than they can be spawned. You flood the Necros with energy but at a certain point they can't use that and afterwards their energy engine would be gone. No idea about how intelligent AI Rangers will be with interrupts and things, though. Hmm...wonder how big the effect of Muddy Terrain is and if that would help against things like SoH...It's really the teleporting back to a point that's a problem but taking speed boosts out of the game might be a good trick to put in the deck there. And while we're crippling enchantments that means things like spirits and/or shouts become very valuable - so that's Rits or Paragons to sprinkle in. Ah, I'd almost forgotten how much fun this sort of thing could be.)
There's a lot of fancy metagaming you can do. The problem is that in the end the format largely comes down to exploiting the dumb AI of your opponent's heroes and trying to micro your heroes so they aren't as easily exploited. That's largely why the hardcore PvPers don't take the format very seriously. Note that heroes don't really discriminate so they're just as likely to blind an ele as a warrior - skills that are better on certain targets aren't generally as good in HvH since you have to direct them yourself.
Last time I played I tried just Monk, interrupt Ranger, hammer warrior and SoH Shove assassin (me). Worked ok but it wasn't fantastic. One nice thing was that the Shove assassin kinda owned the opposing Shadow Prison assassins - they teleport in to gank you and you just Shove them and then have your way with them. I had a couple of the holding/assassin guys ragequit on me after that performance got repeated a couple of times. The SF teams weren't a problem with that setup - it was things like double monk, dervish with imbue, assassin that gave me issues.
I haven't tried it yet but next time I do HvH I think I'll give something like this a whirl.
If you want Wanderlust you'll almost certainly need Razah. Without a primary rit it won't have many hp and it won't stay up. 6k balths faction is the easiest way to get him.
Sidenote: you may want to take a look at Banishing Strike as well.
There's a lot of fancy metagaming you can do.
That would be the fun part for me, yes.
The problem is that in the end the format largely comes down to exploiting the dumb AI of your opponent's heroes and trying to micro your heroes so they aren't as easily exploited. That's largely why the hardcore PvPers don't take the format very seriously.
Yeah, because it features a different set of skills that don't necessarily translate well to other formats - although practicing the micro skills never hurts and all. I just plain suck at that sort of thing without a lot of practice time. I really don't have it to spare at the moment. Maybe the weekend will be a nice time to try that place out.
next time I do HvH I think I'll give something like this a whirl.
I've seen that sort of R/P floating around. It's a solid idea, I think (More interesting to me in that thread is the tactical information. The biggest drawback of the format for me is that it's an individual thing. There's just no sense of teamwork or comradery. No one to share your success with or bounce ideas off of. You know, the kind of game I really like to play.) The problem there would be it's largely based on RaO which if last weekend's any indication is heading for a nerf.
But just as an aside, I love how the Ranger gets used that way - I've seen
SoH Shove assassin
You know, I like that. Not so much the team around it but trumping another Sin with something like that is a good idea for the player character. I was looking at something like Iron Palm but Shove avoids the need for a hex or condition there - though Iron Palm counts as a lead-off but the knockdown from Shove lets you hop to something like Falling Spider to Twisting Fangs and all.
I love how the Ranger gets used that way - I've seen
Keyboard's cutting out there, you might want to check it.
Yeah, RaO is about to be nerfed. The point is to play a highly aggressive setup where it doesn't really matter what the heroes are pointed at, they'll do some damage.
I could just play a holding/running build but where's the fun in that?
Perils of working in fits and spurts on about a dozen things at once.
If I remember correctly, I was trying to make a point about Bunny Thumpers and how Rangers as a primary profession get used to pair with any class that swings a weapon. Happened in Factions with Bunny Crawlers or whatever they got called (I've just remembered that I thought Assassins should be nicknamed Nightcrawlers.), happened with Nightfall with both Dervishers and Paraparas (While, on the other hand, no one ever uses the Ranger that way. There are no Tin Archers or Holy Trappers as far as I can tell.). Since I've been kicking up a fuss about Soul Reaping, I've been thinking about primary attributes and that's the whole reason for that - Expertise. And although it's powerful enough to allow for such things, I find that's a good thing. I like when people find ways of using their secondaries creatively. And powering an attacker through Expertise discounts is completely different than, say, a N/Mo holding build in the Hall. One is interesting and makes the game more diverse and fun. The other is abusing a broken mechanic to get around some needed constraints.
As for the Hero Battles, yeah, that's about what I took from that thread - not that you can use RaO with Spear stuff but that an aggressive approach can be successful. I tend to be a bit more conservative when it comes to planning than that - hence my hexing Necros and spirit spam idea - but I definitely like to play smashmouth once things load.
I could just play a holding/running build but where's the fun in that?
Exactly. I'm not sure why they make what could be interesting formats and then turn things into defensive holding fests. I mean, Tombs, Alliance Battles, and now Hero Battles. I'm sure it comes from looking to FPS design more than a little and it's not like I want a straight up deathmatch there (No, I think capture the flag would be the better way to go.) but those sort of games don't have things like Ritualists and Monks who can just blunt things to such a degree. Tilts thing in favor of the slow-it-down, defensive, turtling approach which, bleh, I'm out to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And there's no /bubblegum emote.
Post a Comment